标题: 在Signal Intergrity成为SI之前，就有了SI-list [打印本页] 作者: stupid 时间: 2010-5-18 14:05 标题: 在Signal Intergrity成为SI之前，就有了SI-list Today, signal integrity has become the limiting factor in all products operating at 200 MHz and above. This includes all communications products, servers, personal computer and even cell phones. Not paying attention to signal integrity in the beginning of a design means the product may not work at bring-up.7 r* e1 P3 x' x+ d
While the highest end applications- telecommunications, test and measurement, super computers, mainframes and servers have been in this regime for more than thirty years, mainstream consumer products have been sensitive to signal integrity effects for only about ten years. ; f1 F3 W. W e2 j! y+ k" CAt the dawn of the “mainstream signal integrity” era, before “social networking” was even imagined, there was the SI-List. Almost all signal integrity engineers, at one time in their career, have participated on this email distribution list, either posting questions, answering questions, participating in the debates or listening to the chatter. 3 D+ H; ?: j( |1 j1 `6 x2 jSixteen years ago, on May 16, 1994, the SI-List was born with 30 members on the charter email list.- c; l8 ^4 r; A* L3 N3 E4 B
Ray Anderson, then a recent convert to signal integrity from years as a microwave engineer, came up with the idea of an email discussion group to continue the question and answer period from the last day of a four day short course he had taken on signal integrity. " L) e2 V" \+ e/ THe had recently joined Sun Microsystems as a signal integrity engineer. His jump start into this new field was “Electrical Modeling, Simulation and Design of Electronic Packages”, taught by Raj Mittra, Paul Franzon and Jose Schutt-Aine in San Jose, CA on May 9-12, 1994. . ]! U9 F* v- t“On the last day of class I said it would be really neat if we put together a mail list to pose questions and answers to continue the discussions. I went back to my office on Monday and hacked together an email list on the SPARC2 worskstation sitting in my office at Sun Microsystems with the thirty names from the class.” & |# p r9 h; ^4 H) d 9 K X0 Z6 O* @: c5 P% ^4 x! tFigure 1. Ray Anderson in his package characterization lab at Xilinx, where he is currently a senior engineer.1 b5 Y0 f* p0 n# F
Sixteen years later, there are 4,000 members on the SI-list spread over more than 34 countries. The range of participants starts with novices and students in college and extends to world renown experts such as Scott McMorrow, Steve Weir, Istvan Novak and Todd Hubbing.( Q$ b* y9 f* s
“The typical questions posed to the list today, are not that different from the early days,” Ray says. “Over the 18 years I’ve been in signal integrity, the technology has changed, but the physics hasn’t.” # b/ W d. w- {( FThe questions posed on the SI-list are an indication of the most confusing or controversial topics in signal integrity. Power distribution design (PDN) has always been a hot topic. How many and what value decoupling capacitors do I need on my board and where should they be placed are the most common questions asked, followed by what is the inductance of a via? ' |5 [* H/ p+ J5 r5 aQuestions range from general, open ended topics, such as which is better a VNA or TDR? to specific design questions about the timing delay between data and clock in the DDR3 JEDEC timing spec., o$ |" c) o/ w8 @8 I
The hot topic these days include the frequency dependence of the dielectric properties of laminates and the use of S-parameters to describe interconnect performance including causality and passivity.+ D; w' S: p0 o3 g
“When I started the list and saw it grow so fast, I had visions of herding cats. But, it has turned out to be remarkably well self managed. Peer pressure usually establishes the norms for behavior,” Ray says.% R6 K' N8 |' v
In addition to questions and technical discussion, it is also a bulletin board for announcements about upcoming webinar, seminars, short courses or job announcements. List etiquette discourages recruiters from posting job openings in the SI field, except by the hiring manager directly.1 N* h, Z, K" R! E1 [& J- s! g1 D
There are always those who abuse the list. However, over the 16 years of its existence, there have only been 12 individuals banned from the list. One of the biggest frustrations with long time participants of the list is with the same, fundamental questions being asked by “newbies.”8 c: d6 s& |$ ^) ~3 s" i1 B* _( w
“If you are going to ask a question,” Ray advises, “do your homework first. Make an attempt to solve the problem yourself. Read some books, search the web and the list archives, then pose the questions. Don’t just try to get someone to do your work for you.”: c% P8 B7 C% U% @/ I+ L: {
To subscribe to the SI-List, go to : http://www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list : m* N7 C) e8 B. ]1 l7 gTo view the archives of postings, go to: http://www.freelists.org/archive/si-list/ 0 j9 p( b# g) b% p; h5 A( G$ q " u: x6 e7 \" O( x5 n: z现在，我只有2个问题，第一你是si-list的成员吗?第二，你知道文中提到的这些SI牛人吗，或者说你知道哪些？作者: binmuk 时间: 2010-5-19 09:09 本帖最后由 binmuk 于 2010-5-19 09:10 编辑 * K( r0 _6 y' x+ o/ c" L. @ / J( q) A! m5 V% U; b我是，呵呵，中间提到的一些我知道不是全部，顺便在reader中分享此文，希望斑竹抽空翻译 ) A9 r. a6 v/ ]0 l: G0 O: h+ c让更多的人了解！作者: stupid 时间: 2010-5-19 09:12
恩，可以意译一下，说一下文中大意。作者: 袁荣盛 时间: 2010-5-19 09:18
For the first question，Yes，i am " R$ ^0 v c6 CAnd for the second，i know some of them; I* x# {& @+ m2 F H. b: Y
Thanks for your sharing作者: Allen 时间: 2010-5-20 09:37
提示: 作者被禁止或删除 内容自动屏蔽作者: stupid 时间: 2010-5-20 14:17
对于我们这个等级的工程师来说，能够娴熟的应用仿真工具，知道工具的局限，以及跟实测之间的差距，不断建立正确的模型，积累分析经验，力争知道知其所以然，也就是know how，做到这一步就算很不错啦，当然做到这一步也不容易。 6 G4 F+ f% |1 l! Z# |' @4 J+ [* o6 s: z) j( O( \( O& X
再简单的说，能够准确理解大师们所讲述的问题，就已经是 小牛人 啦。作者: 于争 时间: 2010-5-22 13:19
SI-LIST我跟了很久了，很多大牛在里面，值得加入作者: joshuafu 时间: 2010-6-13 15:20
感谢分享作者: wl5506 时间: 2011-7-7 08:31
相当有价值的东西，值得深入了解。作者: niuwa 时间: 2011-7-8 09:56
很早就加入了SI-LIST这个邮件系统了，但从未提过问题，因为我认为现阶段我能提出的所有问题都能自己努力去找到答案。文中的一句话说得我是热泪盈眶啊：; A+ B; r; W" ~& _. N+ R
“If you are going to ask a question,” Ray advises, “do your homework first. Make an attempt to solve the problem yourself. Read some books, search the web and the list archives, then pose the questions. Don’t just try to get someone to do your work for you.”6 A: v6 T7 v {: Q 作者: niuwa 时间: 2011-7-8 11:52
谢版主，这也是令我很郁闷的一个地方作者: niuwa 时间: 2011-7-8 13:45
今天，信号完整性已经成为所有在200兆赫以上的运行的产品的限制因素。这包括所有通信产品，服务器，个人电脑，甚至手机。不重视的信号完整性的设计开始意味着该产品可能无法正常工作。! R! l( Y# d4 ~% W0 n- K0 |: l I4 S
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而最高端的应用——电信、测试与测量、超级计算机、大型计算机和服务器，在这一状态下已超过30年，主流消费产品对信号完整性影响感到敏感只有10年左右。 4 e5 p+ Y# H! S- G 8 n! \5 d8 O5 u! a) f9 @在“主流信号完整性”时代的黎明，在“社交”之前甚至想到，有的SI-List（信号完整性列表）。几乎所有的信号完整性工程师，在他们职业生涯的同一时间，参与了这个电子邮件分发列表，他们提出问题、回答问题、参加辩论或听听唠叨。 8 h6 t; C& d! C& R' Z4 ]/ |" u
16年前，1994年5月16日，SI-List在30个成员的电子邮件列表中诞生了。 8 T x$ E$ g! n, Z3 I- H# K * D$ e; |! d. m2 | * f0 P5 Z4 {6 S0 X' U. X! ^- J. w3 I& u, g3 e
Ray Anderson，作为一个微波工程师，最近才转换到信号完整性方面，他想出了一个电子邮件讨论组来继续Q＆A过程，从他参加的一个为期4天的信号完整性短期课程的最后一天开始。 7 f2 [$ b+ o# _! s8 {; Q( W7 F" B+ B: {
最近他作为一个信号完整性工程师加入Sun Microsystems。他跳入这个新领域是从“电气建模，模拟和电子封装设计”开始的，1994年5月9日-12日，由Raj Mittra，Paul Franzon和Jose Schutt-Aine任教。+ K4 Q# {& s' G" ~& ?: k" v
~+ I3 w! A0 z8 {; V3 \“在课程的最后一天，我说如果我们把问题以邮件列表的形式列出来，然后进行提问和回答来延续讨论，这样会非常清楚、明了。我周日回到我的办公室，进入我Sun Microsystems办公室的SPARC2工作终端的电子邮件列表，列表中有班上30个学员的名字。” ; h# R) A: S0 O/ u+ Y9 j + O; P2 g. }; T+ [# b+ p& P0 e% z16年后，SI-List上有4000名成员，来自超过34个国家。参与者从新手和在校大学生开始，逐渐延伸至诸如Scott McMorrow，Steve Weir， Istvan Novak和Todd Hubbing这样的世界著名的专家。 , H/ V4 D" r5 x0 m1 S" |+ }/ [* z7 F0 T/ p
“今天列表上典型的问题和早期的没什么不同。”Ray说，“我研究信号完整性超过18年，技术改变了，但是物理学没有。”% h* ^3 V' o0 o2 D6 A( c. i/ E+ w3 W) R
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SI-List上提出的问题是信号完整性中最混乱或最有争议的话题。配电网络设计（PDN）一直是热门话题。“有多少和什么样价值的去耦电容，我的电路板上需要？他们应该放在哪里？”是最常见的问题，还有“通孔的电感是什么？” * ^* Y+ A- C/ X1 j: \# u0 s6 o4 v
问题范围从一般的、开发式的，如“哪一个更好的：网络分析仪还是TDR？”到专业的设计问题，关于在DDR3 JEDEC规格和数据之间的时间延迟。+ R, Z4 U& I0 B) t. X6 Q: W
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这几天的热门话题包括层压板的介电性能的频率依赖性和S-参数来描述互连性能，包括因果关系和被动。 . s* |0 v4 Y( P0 j2 h$ ]) G- U+ t * S9 u; d# J' P, J4 U“当我打开列表，看到它成长得这么快，仿佛看到了成群的野猫。但事实证明它有着非常出色的自我管理。压力通常规定了行为准则。”Ray说。& ?8 O% O, w0 R2 d# C
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除了问题和技术讨论，这也是即将推出的网上研讨会、研讨会、短期课程或工作发布的公告板。列表张贴在SI领域的空缺职位，而不是由招聘经理直接招聘。9 x }( \& }; C% u7 c5 X: O' y6 H. X [
